Rule of Cool: Is it a DM Crutch or a Creative Tool?

Transcript

You're listening to No Plot Only Lore, a podcast about games and the tables we play them at. Your DMs tonight and every

night are Josh and Chris. You can find us on all podcast platforms or check us out at

noplotonlore.com. If you like what you hear today, please rate and review the show and share it with everyone you've

ever met. Welcome back to No Plot Only Lore, the

coolest D&D podcast. I would say we're the D and D podcast that rules.

Man, your pun was so much better than one. That's me. It's I think it's cuz I have

double the dad jeans. Two kids means twice as much puns. Is that how that works? Is that like

multiclassing into the same class that you already had? Yeah. Yeah. And like what happens is you sort of create this

feedback loop and every kid you have just like increases the density of puns in your bloodstream.

Okay. So what happens if you now become a stepdad? Oh. Uh stepdads get the same

result, but it's only half as efficient. Okay. But you've already got like the double down on the the parenting. Yeah.

I'm saying I don't get double down now. Like if I added an additional step kit, it'll be like a 50% boost.

Okay. Okay. So, you're going to have to like adopt some more to like push those numbers. Adoption is even worse. Yeah.

Fantastic. Anyway, uh rule of cool. You and I have a fundamental disagreement

about the rule of cool and its role in role playing games. Um um why don't you explain your

position first? All right. My my position comes from having spent a very

long time playing various systems and slowly coming to the realization that

all of them are pretty much the same with the only real differences being the

people that you're playing them with. So, like, yes, you're going to be focusing on different things based on the rule set, but the most important

thing in the role playing games that I've played are the interactions that

you're having and the cool moments that you're able to take away from those. And

so, if I have a moment that counteracts the rules, if I have a a thing that

somebody wants to do that is not 100% within the rule set,

I am happy to let them try it. I'm happy to let them do it if it's going to

improve the the stories that we tell about this thing later. Okay. Um so my assertion is that the

rule of cool is a uh first of all it's a crutch for people

who don't learn the actual mechanical rules of the game uh to a degree that

they can problem solve. They are just sort of winging it off their ass and hoping you'll let them get away with

[ __ ] Uh, the second problem I have is that it becomes a logistical

nightmare for the DM to track in their head what they've let people get away

with in the past because the kind of people who try to pull rule of cool [ __ ] almost invariably turn around

and say, "Well, you let me do it before. I should get to do it now." Whenever they want to abuse some goofball thing

that they got away with. Um, and finally, I find that the rule of cool uh

is like it throws you off the table in a

way that um really like detracts from everyone else's experience. If you got one person

out there in particular who tends to like lean on that rule of cool and say,

"Well, I don't really know what my character can or can't do, so I'm just going to like come up with random

nonsensical shit." then you know everyone else at the table is kind of just sitting there suffering for the

like increased spotlight on that person who doesn't know how to uh I guess I I

don't want to use the word properly but properly interact with the table and I understand that like this this can all come back to like

well then just don't let them do the thing but like let's be honest that's every conversation we have can just end

with like okay just say no as a DM, but like I don't think that's healthy to

have to rely on just saying no all the time. Um so well and we both come from

improv backgrounds, so like yes ending is in our [ __ ] blood whether we want it to be or not. Yeah. Um

I I don't know. I I feel like we're we're taking that from two very different perspectives. Mhm. Cuz

like when I'm considering what should be included in rule of cool, right? Like if

I'm if I'm trying to make a an adjudication based on rule of cool, it

has to be something that's actually cool and like that there's an understanding

underlying that that this is like a one-time thing. Mhm. And I I don't know if maybe like we

don't preface enough when these things are like one time or obviously I'm just letting you get away with this thing one

time or like if you can come up with a really good reason that you're able to do it again then maybe we can talk about

it. But it's got to be a really good reason, right? Like every time rule of cool is

um I don't want to say invoked because nobody at my tables has ever been like excuse me damn rule of cool I should be

able to stab 37 guys at once. Um but like anytime somebody's tried to do a

thing where I've considered making an allowance because of rule of cool, it's always been a negotiation, right? And I

what I've run into more frequently is people who everyone is trying to work to solve

a problem and they come up with the most like hairbrain solution to it out of

like desperation because they can't actually figure out a logical like especially when I like put like IRL like

time constraints on a problem then they'll just be like if it's like okay here's a locked door kick and he's like

okay well what if I like took my spear and wedged it in the side did kick flip and bounced off of that because of

parkour that would I'm just like no like figure it out. You can't rule of cool your way through every problem because

you know you just had too much like caffeine before you showed up.

As soon as I hear that my brain goes to

um rule of funny which is [ __ ] roll it. Yeah. The DC is 100. Yeah, I will I

will let you fail your stupid idea and then we'll move on. Yeah, absolutely. You you want to try the to do this

thing. The DC is infinity, right? There is absolutely no way that you can do this thing. I don't usually run with a

natural 20 is an automatic success on skills or like a So, even if you roll a

natural 20, your plus six ain't going to get you there, bro. Yeah. And see, I think the problem is that like the well has already been

poisoned by the idea of a rule of cool. And that's what frustrates me so much about it is that like it's it it's

really hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube, you know? Um so now people are I feel like expecting to be able to

like just give it a go, give it a reach with the rule of cool because it has the

word rule in it. And that's the biggest like flaw is that someone attached the

word rule to something that is like inherently

lawless. Again, I wouldn't necessarily call it lawless. I think

like anytime we're looking at doing stuff like this, it has to be negotiated

with your table and you have to be in a place where you're able to make those negotiations in good faith, right? And

like your your initial descriptions of like problems that you've had with Rule of Cool suggest that you have at least

one player who is not negotiating in good faith, right? Like they're trying to utilize the idea of Rule of Cool u to

metagame essentially and circumvent the challenges that you've put in place

because they came up with a really cool idea in their head for how they should be able to do that, right? And I agree,

but also like that's the fault of the devs for like putting the idea out

there. Like Rule of Cool should not have been introduced to the lexicon.

It wasn't the devs who introduced Rule of Cool to the lexicon, though. That was part of the the wider community for

decades before we had it put into one of the D&D core books. But that's what I'm

saying. Like don't you should never canonize don't canonize community

stupidity. Okay.

So as a the benefits though, okay, the benefits are you can be lazy

in your rule writing and not think of like edge cases that you might need to

keep a little note on and then just like handwave that away with well rule of cool.

Well, no. I I I think that like part of it is that when you have the understanding

that you can try anything and potentially be rewarded for coming

up with a really good idea means that players are taking bigger

swings. And that isn't always necessarily a great thing if your game

is all big swings all the time, right? But in a lot of cases, for me at least,

when my players are rewarded for trying to do something that's just a little bit crazy

and they actually succeed at it, they get a huge rush and then I see around my

table more people trying stuff in that vein, right? Right. And it isn't always going to be something that I'm going to

make an exception for, but at least they're trying to come up with

bigger things that they can try on any of these given challenges, right? So, I

I think that it really like pulls in creativity when you start to reward that

creativity. The whole thing with the [ __ ] like stuff my spear into the cracks of the door and try and parkour

off of it is not something that I would even consider rule of cool to me. That's

just like an opportunity to watch one of those skateboarding fails videos

where a guy does a stupid stunt off of his spear, right? This is just an episode of of Balders's Gate

ridiculousness or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Just like the YouTube poops

version of Balders's Gate. [ __ ] My kid has discovered those recently. Oh no.

It's not like brand name YouTube poops, but it's very much like in that vein. Yeah. And just like Mario characters

weirdly distorted and doing like random skits and reactions and things that are

like super cut together. Wow. It is painful to listen to.

I I thought Preston plays was [ __ ] annoying, but god damn. Oh no. Okay, we're not going to go down the YouTube

rabbit hole of terrible content creators aimed at 10-year-olds, but um my so my I

guess counterpoint to this idea of like, you know, enhancing creativity

is that people are stupid. And my evidence for that

is so I I don't have you picked up the 2024 players handbook yet?

I haven't bought it. I I've I've read through it, but I haven't bought it. You've read through it? Okay. So, you're familiar with the whole new section

about like tools and artisans tools.

I skimmed it. Uhhuh. So, to recap, the OG fifth edition tools section was a

single page with a like bullet point list of what types of tools are available, a vague explanation of like

maybe five general categories and a blurb that said, I don't know, you can kind of do all sorts of things. Maybe

your DM can make something up for a check. And they had to expand that into three pages of listing every single

artisan's tool and what thing you could do with it and what the actual DC of that would be.

Um because I think people saw a really

vague blurb about like your DM could make something up and started trying to abuse [ __ ] Um yeah, I've definitely

seen some people do some [ __ ] up things with Tinker's Tools. Yeah. And now they're like, listen, this is what a Tinker tool can actually do. Here's a

reasonable usage of it. You know, a lot of trap crafting, right? That's a hard

thing to say. um where building traps would not necessarily be the most

appropriate use for those tools. Yep. Um yeah, people trying to somehow excuse

their masonry tools as like a way to build a great deadfall trap in the middle of the woods.

Just ewok that [ __ ] up. Yeah, exactly. Um would that fall under rule of cool

though? Like to me that just sounds like people trying to abuse rules to do [ __ ] that

they shouldn't be able to do as opposed to like making an exception for a very cool moment. I think I think it's an

example of you know how people will use rules vagarities to try to you

know g get an edge. You know it's it's the classic like angle shooting idea.

So yeah, I Okay.

Um, what about the benefits to like storytelling and like momentum, the

narrative momentum, like being able to throw down on a cool moment and not

necessarily have to worry about the rules because the the moment itself was cool.

Um, I think, and again, like this is all

prefaced by like you can always say no, but I think that rule of cool users tend to

be a little like attention selfish, you know?

Um, if there's a thing happening, first of all, like I really do buy into the

idea that like most of D and D is more mundane than you think. Um, and not

every fight with an animal is like a super cool boss moment. Um, but I think that like when you talk

about people using Rule of Cool, like let's say when you're taking on your BBEG or or whatever it is, like yeah,

they just want more spotlight time and they want to be the main character in a

way that distracts from the contributions of the rest of the party.

[Music] See, I I don't want to argue your points

for you. But the first thing that popped

into my head when you said that was Alli Beardsley's entire career.

And I I I get that and I also like you know I don't find them particularly

interesting when compared to like the other uh typical cast members. um they

don't know what they're doing and then they just kind of wing it and think, well, this wouldn't this be funny? And I

don't I don't that gets old very fast.

Have you watched the Star Struck Odyssey? Chunks of it.

Okay. Cuz I I feel like that's one where Beardsley really shines as like the the

mastery of the game that they have attained. Mhm. Has shifted, right? like

they they they very much play the the straight man in that one, okay? where like they're the ones who are corelling

people and being serious and trying to get [ __ ] done and it's a very different

take on it and at the same time people are still doing this like rule of cool nonsense where they're trying to like

one up Brennan and a couple of really solid moments come out of that and like maybe maybe that's the thing for me is

that like rule of cool offers

opportunities for players who aren't necessarily as clever as people who would be on dimension 20 to kind of like

get one over on the DM, I guess, right? Like just come up with like an idea that's so [ __ ] cool that they have no

choice but to roll with it. Okay, but like just that idea like that you have

to get one over on your DM. Like you you've you've now framed the relationship of the entire table in the

wrong way. Like we we're both working towards the same objective. I'm not like

just trying to kill everybody. I Yeah. No, I'm controlling the enemies, but I'm not your

enemy, you know? I I am essentially just like the AI that runs the monsters. And

then the other half of me is like the cool friend that's like, "Let's make some neat memories and and interesting

moments." And maybe I expressively I have like a cool story I think I would

like to explore, but on the understanding that like I don't get to set the framework of the story and

everyone else is going to color in the lines or whatever or and that's the thing as soon as someone starts coloring outside the lines. It's like well you've

wrecked the rest of the story, but like my my

antagonism my my inherent throwing down Yeah. I Yeah, I I play that [ __ ] up.

Yeah. But like part of me playing that up is that

it does engender like a a team cohesion of and like maybe that's something that's I guess more unique to my tables

is that like me constantly poking and be like, I'm going to kill you. Yeah. Going to kill all you. It's going to be a TPK.

uh when they do have an opportunity to like do something that's really cool and

like quote unquote ruins my plans, I'm still allowing it. Like it goes counter

to the way that I was expecting that thing to go because I I choose to yes and whatever this cool [ __ ] thing is,

right? Um then they all get that moment of like, [ __ ] yeah, we did it. We we put

it to him and we we won where we shouldn't have, right? Uh,

and see I I try to create similar, I guess, feelings and moments, but it's

not about me as the antagonist. It's it's the world. The world is unforgiving

and mean, and I'm here to as as part of the group trying to tame that, you know.

Um, so I guess I don't want you to have defeated me. I'm not the end boss.

So, how would you make Rule of Cool work for you? Like, what what changes would need to be

made to make Rule of Cool work at your tables, do you think? So, I already find

ways to not negate the rule of cool, but like turn it on itself or or just like

Yeah. So when someone asks me to do something insane, my first instinct is,

well, what are they really trying to do, right? And try to talk that through with

them. Like it's, you know, it sounds like what you want to do is XY Z. Like you're trying to figure out a way to get

through this door when none of you have arcana or lockpicking, right? Mhm. Um,

and just try to like talk through the situation with them to get to like,

okay, where can we insert actual mechanics to try to make this thing work? I mean, can I use Tinker's tools

to take the hinges off the door? Maybe, but the hinges are on the inside.

So, but what if I roll good enough? Then you might as well have

saved that rule for trying to punch down the door, right? But we want to do it

silently so the alarm doesn't go off. Yeah, I know. I know. There's always like whatever. But like I also try to

like I love I love a failure. I love a failure so much. Um

yeah, try try to That was our first episode. Yeah. Try to break down a door. It didn't work and you raised the alarm.

Now we deal with that, right? That's more interesting to me than like always succeeding and finding dumb ways to

always succeed. Like eventually like your the the challenge disappears entirely if you

can always sort of rule of cool your way out of it, you know? Um I guess for me like when somebody's

trying to do something that is outside the normal rules, it's always really important to me to tie that to logical

consequences, right? Like, okay, you stuff your spear into

the crack in the door and let us assume that I think you doing parkour off of

this spear is cool enough to warrant some kind of possibility that this will

actually do the thing you want, right? I don't cuz it's a bad idea, right? But

like assuming that I think parkour is the coolest [ __ ] thing, um, you're

going to give this a shot. If the door opens, there's a consequence to that,

right? You are going to fall down. You are going to take damage. There's going to be loud noise. Right. Right. Like all

of those things are still true, right? But you get that moment of jumping off of your spear and doing like a sick 180

Tony Hawk style off of it. Yeah. and everybody around the table is like,

"Fuck yeah, we got to round that challenge or whatever." Yeah. Um, but it has to tie to consequences, right? Like

there there's never a time where you do rule of cool and then just everything works scot-free. Right. Right. which I

think is part of the reason that like some of the choices that Brennan Lee Mulligan makes around his table I

understand are for like narrative purposes but I have disagreed with them

because they do appear to be without essential consequence. Yeah. Um

especially around some of Beardley's biggest roles. Yeah. um like the uh no spoilers for like any

of the Fantasy High seasons, but there's a role in particular at the end of the the third season of that where it

essentially resolves a lot of things that it shouldn't have resolved, right?

And that just had me back up a bit and be like, "Okay, so where's the bad?"

because there's a lot of there's a lot of potential bad there, right? Essentially, they just boiled down the

role to like, okay, Ally, roll to win the game. Yeah. And like rolling at 20 because

that's the thing you're known for. Yeah. And like as soon as you roll in hat 20, then we'll move on. Yeah. Um but it does

have to be like a big deal and it has to like the consequences have to be a big deal to

match the amount of cool that happened. Um, and also like partial success I

think is something that we don't necessarily focus on as much as we could for Rule of Cool. Like the idea is

always that I'm going to do this cool thing and look great doing it. But maybe

you jump off of your spear and it doesn't actually open the door completely, but it breaks a chunk off of

the door and now you can see through it, right? Or the door opened, but you broke it the tip of your spear off. So

yeah. Um and then like use it as a spotlight

tool. Yeah. As well, right? Like it isn't something that I would I guess maybe one of the choices

that I would make around my table that would potentially be polarizing

is I would reserve rule of cool for quieter players. Right.

Right. like that they don't get as many opportunities to contribute because they are quieter. They're not constantly

shouting ideas out and like trying to do the biggest coolest things. And so when

they do try to do a thing, if that thing is at all creative, like grab a grab a

plus two on the die and if you succeed, then it's going to be [ __ ] great, right? Okay. But then how so like

obviously you're all sitting at the same table. The power gamers are going to see that happen. How do you keep them from

being like, "Well, he got to do a cool thing. She got to do a cool thing. I'm going to try to do a cool thing." Like all the time because they're going to

see, "Oh, they got a slice advantage." Like, it's always a negotiation. Well, yeah,

right. Like, if if you throw 33 cool ideas at me, I'm not giving you a plus

two on the dieice for every single one of them.

Yeah, but like that's that's what irritates me is like they're going to try for it every time. They're going to see it worked one time and they're going

to ask every time. I don't I don't have that experience. I guess like may maybe

it's just the people that I'm playing with, but like the even the power gamers like once

once they get that plus two and they get that moment of cool and they try to do another thing and like ek that advantage

out of it. If I just explain like, "No, that was a one time thing," then they're

cool with it, right? Like they they just roll their dice and move on. Maybe you just play with a lot less

stubborn people than I do. I think that is generally true. Yeah.

I mean, I don't play with you at my table, so that Well, you did it one time. Uh I did. Yes. Yeah. One super

memorable time. I guess we'll see what happen because I'm about to um we're just wrapping up the Rhyme of the Frost

Maiden and we're then we're gonna take like a very short break and maybe do some group restructuring. Um and then

I'm going to run a Gamma World campaign. Um I'm not sure if it's going to be like

a long thing or we're just going to do like a short arc as a refresher, but uh we just want to try we want to mix

things up. So, I guess I'll see what happens when I am running people through

a system they're unfamiliar with. Um Mhm. and in a setting they're unfamiliar

with, how much rule of cool they try to do when they don't have any idea what's going on.

Yeah. And I think you'll probably end up seeing like less attempts at the power

gaming side of things mostly because they don't have the familiarity with the rules to be able to try and bend them

all the time. Sure. I mean, they're not insane. Like Gamma World is functionally

fourth edition with the numbers filed off, you know. Um, so I I think the

coolest part of it is character creation and then everything else is kind of like whatever. It's more or less standard D

and D with a shiny coat of paint. But there are so many games

where they save all of the cool [ __ ] for character creation and then leave

nothing for the game itself. Like did did you ever

play like second edition Shadow Run? No. Never touched Shadow Run. Uh sorry

that's not true. I never touched Shadow Run on the tabletop. I played a couple of uh of video games that were like, you

know, those like isometric like hard rules dependent RPG games where it was

like right very much trying to recreate the tabletop experience. But I I could not tell you which version of Shadow Run

it was trying to run. Okay. Very much a rule of cool game, right? Like Shadowrun

wants you to be the Matrix. Yeah. But like a dwarf as a hacker jacking into

the m, right? Um, but all of their character creation

stuff was so [ __ ] dope cuz they had like these branching life paths that you could do where um you started off

completely normal and then you would end up with like scars or a missing arm or

um like new characters in your backstory that were going to come back to haunt you. Okay. Um, and all of these were

written down on your character sheet as part of the character creation process. And that was the first time that I had ever played with that. Oh, interesting.

So, the thing I that I like about Gamma World's character creation is that uh

you roll 2d20 on a couple of tables for random mutations, and the random

mutations determine your like character skill set and progression.

I don't know why, but that just reminded me of Padium's

um insanity tables. Okay. Where you if something traumatic

happens, you can just roll percentile dice and then that's the insanity that you get. Right. Right.

And uh my my first bit of like weird tabletop RPG lore was that if you can

find a first edition printing of the Palladium fantasy RPG, one of the

insanities that you can get is homosexuality. I I don't know this is related, but uh

there's a quasi history podcast I listen to on a weekly basis that this week was

talking about the like old like Victorian era mental deficiency

classifications like what defines what defines a [ __ ] versus a high

functioning imbecile. all the way.

Yeah. Yeah. The the euphemism treadmill plers on.

Uh god damn the Yeah. I kind of wish we could use that

terminology today. Yeah. Only because it's hilarious. Yeah. No, I and I want

to combine those two tables into an RPG where like you as as you like as you

take like like almost like a CTE simulator like as you take trauma from

your from your encounters over time you slowly degrade like now you're a [ __ ] okay now you're high functioning

imbecile okay now you're an idiot and now you're homosexual like it's

just stacking brain damage I just I I

want us to start using like some of that terminology to

describe some of our clients at work. Yeah. I want to bring back imbeile. That's for sure.

I I specifically think there's something about high functioning imbecile that really tickles me. Yeah. Yeah. Like

you're you are definitely severely damaged, but you can hold down a job.

Yeah, like medium functioning [ __ ] Yeah, I'm just going to put like functioning labels on the beginning of

all of my descriptions for our clients. Yeah. Hey, thanks for making it all the way

through this episode of No Plotton Only Lore. If you're looking for more, you can always find us at

noplotonlore.com and on all the very best podcast platforms. If you like what

you heard today, please share, rate, and review the show to feed my never- ending need for attention and validation.